Tony said,”Professor Pippin has said nothing new. Moreover he has ignored an important dichotomy surrounding fatalism in Hollywood noir. Yes, a chance event can ineluctably determine a protagonist’s fate, but also a choice made by a protagonist can have fatal consequences no matter what he or she does subsequently. This is an important distinction.”

I agree with your quote that I have quoted above wholeheartedly. Now, with that being said…That is the reality, but the “fantasy” of the matter is…

In Detour, Al seals his fate when he steals Haskell’s car and does not report the natural/accidental death to the cops. So my comment re Detour “The story of a guy so dumb he blames fate for the consequences of his own foolishness” stands.
As for Out of the Past, the fatal consequence is triggered only when Jeff chooses to go off with Kathie in the first reel. The past Jeff cannot escape was triggered by his own action.

If both men (and even actress Claire Trevor, in Born To Kill…She could have easily called the police and reported the murders that she stumbled upon, but instead, she hung-up the telephone and went to San Francisco?!?…a “hot lead” could have easily led to actor Lawrence Tierney’s character, but instead, she lead the trail run “cold” until he create havoc in her life.) would have did the right thing there would not have been a reason to continue the story. Therefore, I think that their actions is what set the catalyst in motion.
(In other words, if all the characters in film noir did the “right” thing the stories would have ended in less than 5 or 10 minutes.

DeeDee :wink: :smile:

1. Kathie does not stab Jeff in the groin (!) in Out of the Past. She shoots him and the shot goes down into Jeff’s body. We don’t knew exactly where – the gun is aimed down only after Jeff has pushed Kathie’s hand down in their struggle – she was aiming for his chest.

2. Professor Pippin has said nothing new. Moreover he has ignored an important dichotomy surrounding fatalism in Hollywood noir. Yes, a chance event can ineluctably determine a protagonist’s fate, but also a choice made by a protagonist can have fatal consequences no matter what he or she does subsequently. This is an important distinction.

In Detour, Al seals his fate when he steals Haskell’s car and does not report the natural/accidental death to the cops. So my comment re Detour “The story of a guy so dumb he blames fate for the consequences of his own foolishness” stands.

As for Out of the Past, the fatal consequence is triggered only when Jeff chooses to go off with Kathie in the first reel. The past Jeff cannot escape was triggered by his own action.

Hi! again, Tony,
After reading this article I thought immediately, Of director Edgar G.Ulmer’s Detour and your review of this film.

I wonder what your opinion will be after you read this article about fate, film noir, and maybe the film…Detour?!?
DeeDee :wink: :smile: